suicide: the gift that keeps on giving! merry christmas!
okay, so just in case my permanent spot at the head table of hell has not already been cemented, i had this thought earlier...
im not really sure you're ready for it...
and i promise you i dont say it simply for shock value...
assuming you believe the bible, at least in part, could it be argued that jesus [indirectly] committed suicide?
*gasp*
i know, it makes my heart flutter just a bit too. i think i feel the icy hand of death on my head and the hot fire of hell upon my feet.
think about it, though, with an open mind...even if you are a god warrior
he "had" to die for everything else to go according to plan. he martyred himself for the cause, so to speak...but in effect, was this martyrdom decision not an indirect suicide? he CHOSE to die, if you believe how the story goes. it was his election in order to fulfill his plan. i may be wrong, but isnt suicide where you choose to end your life?
"the intentional taking of one's own life" i believe sums it up
--merry christmas, any questions?
well, i guess the bible i was going to give you for christmas wasn't the best idea...
im not really sure you're ready for it...
and i promise you i dont say it simply for shock value...
assuming you believe the bible, at least in part, could it be argued that jesus [indirectly] committed suicide?
*gasp*
i know, it makes my heart flutter just a bit too. i think i feel the icy hand of death on my head and the hot fire of hell upon my feet.
think about it, though, with an open mind...even if you are a god warrior
he "had" to die for everything else to go according to plan. he martyred himself for the cause, so to speak...but in effect, was this martyrdom decision not an indirect suicide? he CHOSE to die, if you believe how the story goes. it was his election in order to fulfill his plan. i may be wrong, but isnt suicide where you choose to end your life?
"the intentional taking of one's own life" i believe sums it up
--merry christmas, any questions?
well, i guess the bible i was going to give you for christmas wasn't the best idea...
5 Comments:
My placing a comment on this is almost obligatory...
He didn't "take" his own life, he gave it up.
If someone has the ability to prevent something but doesn't, is it their fault it happened?
you missed the point. i acknowledge the martyrdom. im arguing that martyrdom can be painted with a suicide brush.
he allowed his life to be taken...and if you really wanna look at it from the perspective of father, son, and holy spirit, as father, he took his "own" life in the son form.
the point of the post was to look at the event from a different perspective. play devil's advocate, pardon the term.
stirring the pot, questioning the whole system.
sorry if thats too much to handle. thanks for posting anonymously. at least jesus didnt die anonymously
Excuse me "Bruce", just consider "anonymous" my nom de plume...
Now I am not devaluing the benefits of "stirring the pot and questioning the whole system."
From the mystery of the Trinity (which is all three parts Father, Son, and Spirit existing separately and as one)Christ acknowledged the paradox of Father taking Son's life. "Father, Why have you abandoned me?" If God had not allowed his Son's life (and his Own Human life) to be taken then an argument could be made against free will, but we now cannot make that argument so the free will dilemma is still on the table (thank God). Now to an individual who believes that human life is the end of our existence than yes it would be something terrible for a god to take his own son's life. But the damn thing about the Trinity is that he(It) gave Christ something more, Spirit. The Spirit of Christ (and God) is much more powerful than the pure physical existence of both (Jesus).
I argue that martyrdom cannot be painted with a suicidal brush, because the death cannot be blamed on the dead.
well, my little french philosopher...
why is it that you cannot blame death on the dead?
whose fault was it when X person overdosed on cocaine and vicodin? i blame that person
and the guy who put the gun in his mouth and fired...i blame him for his death
and even the "brave" soldier who runs out amidst enemy fire, knowing full well that he could die...i blame him for his death.
is this a "locus of control" argument (of which i admittedly have very little knowledge), or are you just upset about the trinity debacle?
should we not attribute blame to anyone who dies, simply b/c thats incorrect? is it disrespectful (in your eyes) to do this?
honestly, you put a lot of words into your response...but i missed your point (except the "thank God" joke). help a brother out
The statement I made should be read like this: "...because the death [of the Martyr] cannot be blamed on the [Martyr]."
You can blame the dead in your first two examples. Your first two examples are not martyrs.. they are suicidals, and can be blamed for their death. The third example, the soldier, cannot be "blamed" for his death. The only thing he can be blamed for is having an Idea that other people deem so disruptive to their quality of life that they must end him, he however is of the same opinion.
Now I do not believe this to be a locus of control argument because both loci, internal and external, are by products of God and can be seen as two different sides to the same MO coin.
God the Father cannot die (sorry Fred), only living things die. God exists outside of the realm of living things. This is what God is... I digress.
God the Son must have died. He was mortal and all mortal men must die (yes you too Socrates). Did he die on purpose? No, but he died with purpose. Christ did not tell anyone to kill him, he merely had an Idea[l] that other people (allegorically, all humanity) deemed so disruptive to their quality of life that they had to end him.
God the Spirit is the temporal remainder of God becoming human in Christ (or humanity achieving Godness in Jesus). It is what lasts through the ages. The Spirit exists inside of all of us, even if we don't want it to. It exists in every conversation we have and even in this discussion.
Christ did not WANT to die. Suicidals WANT to die. Christ wanted to live but more importantly he wanted to do what he knew to be true and right, which was to accept death.
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